Curse

Taala · Jan 19, 2007, 05:13 AM // 05:13

Quote:

Originally Posted by ValaOfTheFens

Truthfully, I wish each armor was made the way it used to be: in the base color of your chosen profession. I'm a casual gamer and can't spend alot of time grinding in order to buy dye for all my armor.

How many sets of armour do you have then if you can't afford to spend 500 gold for each set?

I'm a casual gamer too and don't farm at all, yet I have no problem buying dye for every set of armour I buy, even for those below max stats at the beginning of the game. I'm glad they have that grey base colour so people who actually care about dyes stand out more.

Maria The Princess · Jan 19, 2007, 05:18 AM // 05:18

a little input on the dye subject, plz give us dye remover back! Grey dye just doesnt do the job, dye remover was great

chikorita23 · Jan 19, 2007, 08:43 AM // 08:43

Dye preview window is cool. However the new color-dye are weird... someone had mention black-dye make armor WAY too black....

And the biggest restriction is.... WHY we CANNOT use TWO SAME COLOR DYE?!?

Just why? It make a differences in color dye preview window.

For example, I spend huge money and I mean seriously huge money on buying Ritualist Vabbi armor set. And crap... I wanna create a bright red armor, and only 2 red dyes will work. I wasted money testing 3 or 4 dyes and it just couldn't come out a bright red except using 2 same red dye.

While black dye is even worse... it almost screw up the armor detail and I had to spend money to mix it with a silver dye for black-color but with armor detail.

Gaile, can you please suggest to Anet? Its odd why Anet has to disable the function of mixing same color dye when it DOES look different on certain armor??

Gaile Gray · Jan 19, 2007, 08:54 AM // 08:54

I'm sorry, how did you "waste" dye, when there is a preview window that does not use the dye at all until you accept the process?

It's my understanding that each dye will cause changes, that the colour from two is different than the colour from 3 of the same type. I could have thought it was a matter of intensity of colour. In any regard, if it is provably and repeatably not working, that would be deserving of a bug report. Every time I've used the process, it has worked well, and the preview screen is a dye lover's dream!

Mammoth · Jan 19, 2007, 09:06 AM // 09:06

Technically you can still 'waste' dyes if you accidentally click on your backpack, belt pouch, or the bags in your inventory while you are clicking to preview on an item. There isn't a confirmation for that. (Lost a white dye like that, lol)

I'd say the only thing that needs some kind of a change is mixing the same dye colors together... Dual red looks nicer on some armors than a single red or what can be accomplished with multiple colors.

Pwny Ride · Jan 19, 2007, 09:25 AM // 09:25

Why did they get dif of dye removers anyway. Last time i checked dye removers and grey dye where two different things. Say, why the HELL did they set all armor to originally being gray!?

I thought that the armor creation color was meant to define each profession..i guess i was wrong, and i guess people like walking around looking like grey children from silent hill. *shakes head in deep dissapointment*

Regardless, i dont favour the changes made to the dye system. The preview window is ingenious, but the dyes are all iffy, and are..im not sure, just not as vibrant as they used to be, and heh, no chance of making the nice colors we enjoy anymore, because DYE REMOVER IS GONE...

Mars Dragonblade · Jan 19, 2007, 09:30 AM // 09:30

I'm not sure if this is still the case, but I'm not going to try it on my armour to find out. The blood red colour on necros used to be able to be made two ways: one mix was purple + green + blue + remover, the other was red + purple + green + blue, which was what I used to make the colour I still have on my necro atm. But with the dye system as it is I'm not willing to try it again.

wingzro · Jan 19, 2007, 09:35 AM // 09:35

Dye remover was nothing special people. It was just the color of whatever profession you were. Yellow for warriors, red for necros, green for mesmers, blue for monks, etc. The only thing "special" about it was that if you didn't want to shell out 200g for red you could just spend 50g if you were a necro. It wasn't some magical dye that allowed mixes to look joygasmic when applied to your armor.

Kityn · Jan 19, 2007, 01:51 PM // 13:51

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gaile Gray

It's my understanding that each dye will cause changes, that the colour from two is different than the colour from 3 of the same type. I could have thought it was a matter of intensity of colour. In any regard, if it is provably and repeatably not working, that would be deserving of a bug report. Every time I've used the process, it has worked well, and the preview screen is a dye lover's dream!

Does that mean you are suppose to be able to use the same color dyes only and no other dyes such as red+red+red? If so it definately does not work when I try it. Says you cannot use the same dyes.

**cosyfiep** · Jan 19, 2007, 04:28 PM // 16:28

Quote:

Originally Posted by wingzro

Dye remover was nothing special people. It was just the color of whatever profession you were. Yellow for warriors, red for necros, green for mesmers, blue for monks, etc. The only thing "special" about it was that if you didn't want to shell out 200g for red you could just spend 50g if you were a necro. It wasn't some magical dye that allowed mixes to look joygasmic when applied to your armor.

dye remover WAS unique for each proffession----and sometimes the ONLY way to get some of the color combos (like the blood red necro).....being able to get back to the base armor color and then being able to apply dye on top of that made some color combos available. If you start out with a red and want to make it a deeper red....you could do this with the dye remover on necro armor since it added another red to the combo ----eg red red remover, since you cant have 2 dyes of the same color this was a great solution since the remover was seen as a different dye.

Now with the dye remover gone and base armor color being grey....there is no possibility of getting some of the combos we used to make. The uniqueness of each profession is gone now....I can make any cloth armor the same blue whether it be ranger or ele (as long as its the same material).....now thats BORING!

So there are really 2 issues here.....the vanishing of dye remover (and its replacement with ugh grey dye) and the apperance of ugly grey color based armor (feels like a bad script of Ursala K LeGuins the 'Lathe of Heaven'....).

Please return one of them......or both!! (and you can still have the grey dye.....its buttt ugly, but; well nevermind).

ValaOfTheFens · Jan 19, 2007, 05:11 PM // 17:11

Quote:

Originally Posted by Taala

How many sets of armour do you have then if you can't afford to spend 500 gold for each set?

I'm a casual gamer too and don't farm at all, yet I have no problem buying dye for every set of armour I buy, even for those below max stats at the beginning of the game. I'm glad they have that grey base colour so people who actually care about dyes stand out more.

Just 1. I'm not far enough in any of the games to get 15k armor yet and I'm saving gold to buy the Bloodstained insignia so I can make some 5k armor. Red dye is 500g a piece and in some cases the dye trader didn't have any to sell.

The grey base color was probably created as an in-game money sink so people would have to spend more gold on dye. I'm lucky I don't dye my Scar Pattern. *lol* My hair covers it.

I wish I could give my Necro a mohawk or some dreadlocks.

dwc89 · Jan 19, 2007, 05:22 PM // 17:22

Just an observation of late, believe it happened after the january 11 update. Some armors changed the color that had been applied prior to the update.

For sure, as I've seen these, are 15k Kurzick Ritualist, 15k Canthan Mezmer and Vabian Ritualist - all female armor. I will say that details of these armors were improved/upgraded/changed, all a matter of opinion on what you think of the detail change.

One thing I have noticed is that obsidian armor colors have not changed, so far anyway. Hoping that those are not touched at all, I would be upset.

Anyway, all I know is what I see and what I have done with my characters and what I notice with other players armor(s).

The change of the base armor color has been good for a number of armors and not good for others - 15k Gladiator comes to mind as one of the good and 15k Frostbound as one of the not so good(from my perspective).

And again the preview window is nice - helped with a nice color on my Ritualists obsidian armor.

Myria · Jan 19, 2007, 06:17 PM // 18:17

From the 'Just out of curiousity' department...

Why does the dye system not follow standard color theory? Experience has shown that any resemblance between in-game dye mixing and a standard color wheel is purely accidental, making the whole process naught save guesswork. No doubt there's a reason for this, I'm just really curious what it might be.

Why do various profession's armors still dye differently? I had thought, obviously mistakenly, that was the point of making them all 'grey', but clearly that's not the case. So what was the point of making them all the same apparent starting (non-)colour? Did the dye trader's union bribe y'all in hopes of more sales, or something?

Why does the lighting in the preview box change depending on the dye color? This distorts your perception of the color your armor is about to be dyed and seems wholly unnecessary. Is there a non-obvious reason for this, or was it just something someone thought was 'nifty'?

Inquiring minds, assuming any frequent these environs, may or may not want to know, but I'd like to...

Lamont Shadow · Jan 19, 2007, 07:28 PM // 19:28

Quote:

Originally Posted by Myria

From the 'Just out of curiousity' department...

Why does the dye system not follow standard color theory? Experience has shown that any resemblance between in-game dye mixing and a standard color wheel is purely accidental, making the whole process naught save guesswork. No doubt there's a reason for this, I'm just really curious what it might be.

I'm curious too. the old standard color wheel of red, yellow, blue (now called the psychological primaries) is being replaced these days with yellow, cyan, magenta (which is more accurate but harder to obtain in real life becaue real magenta is difficult to obtain). Nevertheless, the dyes don't seem to follow either one.

I wonder if the major problem is that they are trying to replicate the old color wheel but because the computer has to render in red, green, blue (the primaries in the yellow, cyan, magenta wheel) the results are unpredictable.

If they really wanted to give us dyes that could make any color they should dump most of them and give us strictly red, green, and blue with black and white to lighten or darken. Adding in cyan, magenta and yellow for more subtle shifts would not be bad either.

In the meantime the preview window is nice but not as accurate as ANet seems to think because it seems to have only one light source and does, in fact, shift the background according to the dyes added. I find that in reality the colors wind up being a little lighter than they appear in the preview panel.

Overall the new colors are just too clumsy and I findmyself sticking with single dye colors most of the time.

gamecube187 · Jan 30, 2007, 01:06 AM // 01:06

First of all, I really, really like the dye preview window, and I hope that we always have that. The dye preview window is perfectly fine...except for one thing....

Quote:

Originally Posted by floppinghog

Theres a few problems with the dye system right now (forget the preview window thats something else) but when you do open it and place you 4 dyes, well, you can't dye something red-red but it shows you a difference in the window!

That is probably the biggest problem I see right now. If you just add one dye of any color, then it changes to that color. Now if you add a second of that exact same dye (as in you have a blue and you add a second blue to the window), then it changes to a different shade of that color. Often times, that different shade is exactly the shade I want for my armor, but I can't apply it because it says "All dyes cannot be the same color." Then, when i try to copy that color with different combinations, I can't get that color, which is very anoying and, at times, frustrating.

Then, like people many people here are saying, there seem to be some colors that we were able to make before, that we can't make anymore. I had found some really nice dye colors with the old dye system. Once the new system came out, I expirimented on all my armors trying to see if I could find better colors. There were one or two armors that I dyed because it seemed better. Not too long after dyeing the armor, I decided I liked the way it was dyed before more than how I just recently dyed it. Unfortunately, those colors just happened to be some of the colors we can no longer make, and now I am stuck with armor that isn't dyed as good as it was before.

And then there is the black and white dyes, which I would expect to make a color a little brighter (if I used white) or a little darker (if I used black). Instead, they seem to be too powerfull and either make the armor white with a small hint of another color, or black with a small hint of another color.

bam23 · Jan 30, 2007, 01:22 AM // 01:22

Since we're on the subject of dyes, I wanna say that I really hate the way black dye looks now. It's way too dark and you can barely see the details on your armor.

Lamont Shadow · Jan 30, 2007, 02:13 AM // 02:13

I think a lot of people are really frustrated with the new colors and I suspect that's major reason dye prices have dropped so much.

Some of it may be that people are saving dye by using the preview pane. (though, I have actually wasted far more dye since because it's cheaper now)

but I suspect the main reason is that most people are going for straight color and not bothering with mixes because it is just not giving the shades they want.

I know I gave up trying to get good colors on my assassin. Now his four sets of armor are straight yellow, red, white and black - the only exception are the gloves and boots of the black set which are a brown/orange mix to warm the brown a bit.

Any more I'm disappointed when I get a dye drop - 10 gp whoopie!

floppinghog · Jan 30, 2007, 02:32 AM // 02:32

I still wanna re-estate the fact that Anet made a mistake in changing too much stuff at once, without doing proper testing. The team that rolled the preview window probably did it so fast, they got cocky, and wanted to make it even more of an update by changing the entire system thinking it would work out... (without the essential testing of ALL aspects of the programming).

I'd like to hear what Gaile has to say about my emphasized text (bold and italic) as a whole, NOT picked apart. Thanks, I try to talk with my text, not make broken sentences to be attacked upon.

I'd also like add aside from all this above is, I'm basically stuck with the dyes I have now on my pre-dye-update characters's armors. The reason this was possible is because those dye combos are now IMPOSSIBLE. I tested, I KNOW what I'm talking about, among others here.
Also, I think it's a good idea to mention in simple math terms:
possible != impossible

Cherno · Jan 30, 2007, 03:50 AM // 03:50

My only complaint on dyes is that they sometimes react differently on the same set of armor with they same crafting materials.

On my 15k sunspear dervish male, I dyed the bottom plain orange. But when I put it on the chest and hood it is noticably lighter on those two pieces than on the "dress". I had to mix in black with them to get them to be even similar in color, and even then, they are still just a bit off.

Is this how I should expect it to work Gaile?

Cherno · Jan 30, 2007, 03:53 AM // 03:53

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lamont Shadow

I think a lot of people are really frustrated with the new colors and I suspect that's major reason dye prices have dropped so much.

Some of it may be that people are saving dye by using the preview pane. (though, I have actually wasted far more dye since because it's cheaper now)

but I suspect the main reason is that most people are going for straight color and not bothering with mixes because it is just not giving the shades they want.

I know I gave up trying to get good colors on my assassin. Now his four sets of armor are straight yellow, red, white and black - the only exception are the gloves and boots of the black set which are a brown/orange mix to warm the brown a bit.

Any more I'm disappointed when I get a dye drop - 10 gp whoopie!

I don't believe your reasons to be the true cause. I think many people aren't dying some of their armor is because the default armor is so very similar to silver (a popular color for dying anyway) that they like it as is. No need to dye something that you already like the color. Silver is not very distinguishable from the grey on most armors, so no need to spend the money on silver when you can stick with the default.